[785] 2019.2.3 Beta - Default animations for Index users looks unnatural on several model bases.
tracked
Rak
Please refer to the attached screenshot. On the left is my model's "Open Hand" gesture with my override on the live version of the game. Note how it looks a lot more natural than the picture on the right.
On the right is the "Open Hand" gesture when using Index controllers on the 2019.2.3 beta. This is a model specific issue and looks identical to when the first thumb bone is set to its maximum value. However, I did try a few other model bases and all had a similar unnatural look. You can even see it in Tupper's short clip demonstrating the Index controller support announcing this beta.
Log In
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Some further review: Check my big giant comment on this post https://vrchat.canny.io/feature-requests/p/785-add-script-to-allow-setting-minmax-muscle-values-used-for-index-tracking
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
FYI: We're still investigating this issue. We don't have any specific fixes in 2019.2.3 for this issue, but we're going to continue work into upcoming patches/releases that should help this issue.
Two things we're looking at:
- Increasing thumb presence by detecting what face sensor the thumb is on should allow for more dynamic positioning when curling the thumb. This didn't make it into the 2.3 release but hopefully should be in an upcoming release.
- Adjusting the thumb "rest" pose such that it is around 50% stretch. Full thumb stretch is only really needed while using gestures like thumbs-up and finger-gun. I'm spitballing here (as in, don't take this as how it might be addressed) but one solution may be detecting the squeeze state and only going full-stretch on the thumb if you're squeezing the controller and the thumb isn't on a capsense.
I'd like to reiterate (as we've done in many other places) that 2019.2.3's implementation is both a first-pass and kind of an "interim" solution. It is not meant to be final. We've got plans for UX that impacts a high-end complex controller like the Index Controller pretty heavily. Expect more changes!
Rak
V1ll3 came up with the idea to move/shrink the thumb bone in blender and it seems to be a workable fix.
On my particular model I'll have to do a bit of weight painting and will have to move the bone around a bit until I find the perfect spot for it but this is a good start at fixing the problem for now.
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Rak: Thanks for checking stuff out.
I _suspect_ this is a per-model thing due to a combination of bone location and weight painting. If that's true, then this issue's root lies across multiple causes.. which may complicate things.
We'll look into it ourselves and I'm personally experimenting with rigging setups. Thanks for doing the groundwork.
T
Tenshinen
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Would it be possible to just set the default "open hand" from live as the maximum open-ness of the Index hands? As such when no Index tracking is being pressed, the hand would look identical to "open hand" on live? :o?
Part of the issue I feel is the lack of any real tracking of the thumb, with it just being a binary on/off. I doubt many people with their thumbs off of the buttons are splaying it as far as it'll go, so having it be a bit less than that in-game seems like it'd be a good compromise. Like in the pic.
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
tracked
Rak
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Just adding this video here so this problem can be seen in motion https://streamable.com/yfiwb
CurtisVL
Rak: That's a very good video showing/explaining the issue, good job. :p
John H
The hand poses look okay on Y-Bot. Testing on other avatars is clearly needed.
CurtisVL
Maybe they should set a lower up limit for the upper most bone of the thumb.
If I remember correctly, this same issue normally happens with the default thumbs up animation too when not using Index controllers, most people use a gesture override to get around this, the same applies for the sometimes 'claw' like fist animation.
I don't think this issue is totally Index-specific, but I guess with no option to override the gestures we need to look into rig fixes for this now. :p
Rak
CurtisVL: It's not just the up/down value of the bone but also the "spread" which needs to be adjusted on some models.
John H
CurtisVL: Checking with my rig in unity, setting Thumb 1 Stretched to full looks awful and like the screenshot.
If anything the default value is what it should be when the user's thumb isn't touching the controller. Maybe with a little on 2 and 3.
CurtisVL
Rak: Yeahhhhh... As you said in your video, the default poses on live right now aren't great, they have the same issue except they were easily overridden as mostly everyone did.