Don’t allow “Very Poor” avatars to be Public (If not on PC, at least on Quest)
1029chris
People don't want the performance ranking system to have a hard limit, it can stifle creativity. Sometimes a cool avatar needs to be Very Poor, I get that. At the same time, Very Poor avatars are often worn by non-creators who don't even know what it means, especially on Quest. There's also many Very Poor avatars that are Very Poor due to ignorance or negligence rather than for artistic reasons. Personally, lag can make me motion sick, being forced to choose between talking to robots or getting motion sick isn't a fun choice.
The easy answer is to just ban all Very Poor avatars. But that solution hurts a lot of creators. So what's the middle ground? I think that perhaps Very Poor avatars shouldn't be allowed to be marked as public, meaning they'd be unable to be put on a pedestal, and unable to be cloned. An exception perhaps being avatars that can be filtered down to other performance ranks. For example: avatars with too many dynamic bones, since dynamic bones can be filtered out easily.
Artists would still be able to upload and show off what they want to. But I don’t think it’s okay for that performance hit to be spread around. Especially on Quest, where the hardware really needs optimization. A lot of non-creator users don't understand what the performance rank means.
I understand this idea might get a lot of pushback on PC, but the Quest in particular really needs something like this. Nearly everyone is a robot on Quest, either PC only or Very Poor. It’s also discouraging for creators, why not upload a very poor Quest avatar as well if everyone is wearing them? It’s a problem that’ll keep getting worse the longer it’s not dealt with.
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Kaylee83
This is exactly why hide avatar is a feature. Use it.
Lilyyy6_
I see where you are coming from, but as a quest user I disagree. I don't mind everyone being a robot on quest, and I don't meet quest users who have any issue with it either. Quest users want quality, there's no point in having all avatars on if they are all lower quality. There is also really no reason to have every avatar in the instance loaded anyways. I also don't agree that we should just implement this on quest just because there will be less pushback. Quest users are less likely to have access to a PC (people with PCs tend to play VRChat on PC), less likely to create avatars/worlds for vrchat (lack of PC), and are less likely to be active in these forums because of that. Less pushback is because many quest users don't have a seat at the table. I am in a very particular position where I own a laptop that cannot run VR, but can run creator programs like Blender and Unity, so I create avatars. This pulls me in to be more involved with feedback as little changes to VRChat can effect the quality of my work. Many quest users are not in this position and do not interact with these channels of feedback despite having opinions.
Quest already has an unfair disadvantage when it comes to content because of actual limits of the hardwear, lets not enforce new artifical limits as well.
Anything decent on quest is very poor. Its more likely that a public avatar would need to be very poor because public avatars need more options to appeal to more people. More hair colors, more skin tones, more outfits. Private avatars can be specialized and have 1 skin tone, a few outfits, 1 hair color, because the avatar is only for one person. Basically, removing very poor from public avatars creates a difficulty being inclusive of your wider audience, as with more assets an avatar is less optimized due to polygons, MB, material slots, etc.
I get some people are concerned with how to game runs performance-wise. As a quest user, I am very satisfied with how VRChat performs on quest. I understand that there is a push and pull between quality avatars/worlds and performance, and I think the current balance is good. I will continue to question other quest users in-game and leave their feedback as edits here as well.
Kintsuba
I agree with you. This has two major advantages.
First, it gives avatar creators the reason to optimize their avatars.
Second, it prevents people from sharing avatars that were created solely to annoy others, as most of them are rated Very Poor.
Skuld
I think it should be implemented for all platforms, and this is why:
People new to the platform, the first thing they do is go look for avatars. The first avatars they get are always the worse. They get attached to these avatars, and when they get called out on why it's not okay to use it, they fight to keep using it heaven or hell, in all the worst places. It becomes the pivot of a lot of drama.
MadHatterOp
Use safety settings
xxx_red_xxx
gtfo with that we don't want it on pc, there's performance filtering in safety for a reason.
Demirramon
xxx_red_xxx: or you could learn how to properly optimize stuff at least a tiny bit if yoy're going to be doind public avatars so people don't go around lagging each other because of them. Private avatars would not be involved, you could still be doing whatever you want with those.
xxx_red_xxx
Demirramon: too hard + impossible for the kind of avatars I make plus the performance ranks are completely ridiculous and not always an accurate way to tell how laggy something is
zxcoldx
xxx_red_xxx: Sounds like your limitation and as for the difficulty most of what we are asking takes one click, atlasing takes one click, joining meshes, one click, even merging bones at a percentage takes one click and worst of all, the sdk basically tell you how to do it when you upload, people like you are the reason i vote this up.
xxx_red_xxx
zxcoldx: cats plugin doesnt always produce desirable results
Also skipping blender entirely saves time.
zxcoldx
xxx_red_xxx: its an old art saying but time equals results if yur not putting in the time no wonder your content suffers. That and if your never touching blender or another 3d modeling program i do wonder where youvare getting your models that are still so problematic. Since you do not have the time your clearly are not making them yourself.
xxx_red_xxx
zxcoldx: Ive made a few of my own models which was very tedious and annoying and after that i mainly just focused on models from games.
zxcoldx
xxx_red_xxx: and what is the problem then becuase i am pretty sure most models from even aaa games would be well below very poor.
Temmie Dola
Yes! Please!
zxcoldx
pls do this, at least force creators to try and optimize there content for public use but not limit normal people from creating content even if it is bad.
migero
simple
block all low pref and one u talk to someone and asid has createive avatar unblock
Temmie Dola
migero: its not simple
zxcoldx
Temmie Dola: 4 clicks for low pref setting 3 clicks to show avatar. You passed 2nd grade and can count past that right.
Temmie Dola
zxcoldx: its easy for your vision because you played a lot but nost of the people donth bother even check settings
zxcoldx
Temmie Dola: the block avatar option is on the first page when you click on some one, the game tells you how to click on some when when loading amd in the home world, as for poor block, yes that is advance but 10 secs on google will lead you to a well documented page about that tool and other like it made by vrchat. Its not a matter of vision but if you can read or get information for yourself, you found my post i bet you could do all that yourself too so why even complain? I upvoted and support this idea because I understand common sense. Poorly made avatars run down hardware and make the game less enjoyable or even unplayable for some. Further more its not like vrchat tells you what is poor about the avatar when you upload with quick fixes or more documentation and tutorials right next to the upload button... oh wait they do. We are not asking you to be experxt before uploading, we are asking for a limitation on PUBLIC avatars to lower the general hardware problems faced and possibly give incentive to further ones skills by learning more so they can create these crazy avatars that do not make you lose all your frames.
Casuallynoted
I completely agree with this, for both PC and Quest. Optimizing an avatar isn’t hard, but people choose not to do it either because they don’t know or because they don’t want to. This is a great way of making people have to figure it out.
xxx_red_xxx
Casuallynoted: yes it is, CATS isn't an option for everything anymore
zxcoldx
xxx_red_xxx: never was, but nether is unity, tip unity is not modeling program, you run into problems if you use it as such, you can always expand your skills and fbx exporters from unity is a thing if your stuck.
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