Proposal for Proper YouTube View Data Counting in VRChat
MinaFrancesca
In Chill World, it’s common to play music using video players as background music (BGM). One cool thing about VRChat is that YouTube ads don’t show up in this environment. However, there’s a problem. It seems that when videos are played in VRChat, the view count and watch time on YouTube aren’t being tracked. This can be a serious issue for YouTube content creators. Additionally, this might be a grey area that YouTube is currently overlooking, but it could become a bigger issue in the future. Before YouTube takes action, I suggest finding a way to ensure that view counts and watch time are properly recorded.
BGMとして動画プレイヤーで音楽を流す手法がチルワールドではよく行われています。VRChat内ではYoutubeの広告は表示されません。これはとてもクールです。
しかし問題があります。VRChatで動画を再生しても、Youtubeの動画視聴回数、および視聴時間はカウントされていないようです。
Youtubeのチャンネル運営者にとってこれは死活問題です。また、Youtube側も今はまだ黙認しているグレーゾーンの問題なのかもしれません。
Youtubeに怒られてしまう前に、動画の視聴回数、視聴時間が正しくカウントされるように調整を行うことを私は提案いたします。
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FloydianSound
this used to be the case with twtich back in the days, where viewers in a lobby would count towards their viewership score, but twitch changed its method of metrics it to align with their new ad-revenue strategy (that was like... in 2019 or 2020. it was pretty clear when this happenned because we had maybe 40-60 viewers one week, and one week later in the same environments, the numbers were fairly lower, and the difference matched very closed to the amount of people in lobby instead of watching on twitch.
for a while there was a strong supportive wave where community members would watch the stream on twitch, to help creators achieves views goals and get some ad-revenues going.
to this day, on twitch, as far as i know... viewers off platform do not count towards the views, because they are not logged on the website and do not have targeted ads to them.
its a similar solution from youtube. they probably don't want to count and have to pay creators for views if ads were not served.
this is speculative but i doubt its too far from the truth. they basically want to have you logged in in some ways to deliver targeted ads, so that the creators (and themselves) make money from the views.
having views counts, but not delivered ads, would break their metrics and create a whole situatio where people people might not gete paid and complaint, pointing the fingers at video viewes, but the payment is done with amounts of ads served and that would create discrepancies.
i don't have a solution to this, other than offering this explanation as insights with my previous observations and experience with twitch.
ᴋᴀᴡᴀ
Back in the days there was web-panels in VRC, which is basically full-featured web-browser, but they were removed due to security reasons.
I believe they can get them back in limited form (no Udon access, only trusted sources, etc) but it would be hard to properly sync things, as most web pages not made with intents to be somehow real-time syncable with different browsers.
FloydianSound
ᴋᴀᴡᴀ yes those were pretty bas for security and privacy. these were the very older days tho, and not a lot of people had a need for this. i do miss the VRCPanorama tho ! wish they'd bring something like that back
pluslatte
I think your suggestion itself is absolutely correct. If there is a problem, it may be healthy to have that method of choice.
The free user experience may be compromised by restricting the means of viewing the videos, but from your standpoint, there is no problem there.
By the way, yt-dlp is just an audio/video downloader. That means it is not just for getting videos from youtube, it is only the user who is choosing to get videos from youtube.
I am not a legal expert, so I do not know if this is an issue that VRChat should address, and if the user is agreeing to youtube's terms of service. but I do not think it is appropriate to stop using yt-dlp.
あなたの提案自体は全く正しいと思います。もしここに問題があるのであれば、その手法が選択できるのは健全かもしれません。
動画の視聴手段が制約されることで無料ユーザーの体験は損なわれる可能性がありますが、あなたの立場からすればそこに問題はありません。
ところでyt-dlpは単なる音声・動画ダウンローダーです。つまり、youtubeから動画を取得するためだけのものではないということです。これを利用してyoutubeから動画を取得することを選択しているのはあくまでユーザーです。
私は法律の専門家ではないので、これがVRChatが対応するべき問題なのか、そしてそのユーザーがいったいいつyoutubeの利用規約に同意しているのかは私にはわかりません。が、私はそれでもyt-dlpの使用をやめることについては適当とは思えません。
pluslatte
追記
My point is that your proposal is same as "eliminating yt-dlp" (I'm a layman, but even if VRChat banned yt-dlp's use on youtube.com, I don't think it would essentially mean anything) and whether it would cut off a pathway for many existing mechanisms that have nothing to do with youtube. (If not, it seems to me that it is essentially inevitable that videos on youtube will be played on VRChat.)
私が言いたいのは、あなたの提案は「yt-dlpを排除する」と等しいのではないかということ(私は素人ですが、仮にyt-dlpのyoutube.comへの使用を禁止したとしても本質的には何の意味もないと考えています。)と、それによって多くのyoutubeと無関係な既存の仕組みの経路が断たれることはないのか、ということです。(そうでない場合、本質的にはyoutube上の動画がVRChat上で再生されることは避けられないように思えますが。)
MinaFrancesca
Since this is the place for "Feature Requests", I will try to make a more constructive suggestion.
As you commented, I also do not want YouTube ads to be displayed in the future. Some people misunderstood this and blocked me on social media. It seems to be a very delicate issue.
The best possible outcome would be for views and viewing time to be counted and measured.
However, to achieve this, it seems necessary to stop using yt-dlp. The fact that yt-dlp is frequently unavailable suggests that YouTube is trying to prevent third-party video viewing.
It is not that YouTube is targeting VRChat, but rather that it does not approve of such third-party viewing in the first place and wants to stop it. (I simply use the expression "YouTube is angry" for this.)
Let's start with a constructive suggestion.
For example, how about adding a function to link with a Google account to the VRChat website administration screen. If you have a YouTube Premium contract, ads should not be displayed with that account. By registering a YouTube Premium account in the administration screen, ads will not be displayed in the video player in VRChat, and you will be able to play as comfortably as before.
This will also comply with YouTube's community guidelines, and normal engagement will be ensured.
With this method, it is easy to imagine that some users who want to continue using it for free will complain. However, in order to use YouTube, the terms of use must be followed.
How this problem is resolved is up to VRChat's management. I would appreciate it if you could treat this suggestion as one possible idea.
ここは「Feature Requests」の場所なので、より建設的な提案をしてみようと思います。
コメントを頂いた通り、私もYouTubeの広告が今後表示されるようになることを望んではいません。これを誤解した方々がSNSで私をブロックしました。とてもデリケートな問題のようです。
考え得るベストな結果としては、視聴回数や視聴時間がカウント、計測されるようになるだけで良いのです。
ただし、それを実現するにはyt-dlpの使用を中止する必要があるように思います。度々yt-dlpが使用できなくなるのは、YouTubeがサードパーティでの動画視聴を阻止しようとしていることを示唆している、と考えられます。
YouTubeがVRChatを狙い撃ちにしているわけではなく、そもそもそういったサードパーティでの視聴を良しとはしていない、辞めさせたいということだと考えられます。（これを私はシンプルに「YouTubeが怒っている」という表現を用いています）
では建設的な提案を始めましょう。
例えば、VRChatのウェブサイト管理画面において、Googleアカウントとリンクする機能を追加するのはどうでしょうか。YouTubePremiumを契約している場合、そのアカウントでは広告は表示されないはずです。YouTubePremiumを契約しているアカウントを管理画面で登録しておくことで、VRChat内の動画プレイヤーで広告が表示されるようなことはなく、これまでどおりの快適なプレイが実現するでしょう。
これであればYouTubeのコミュニティガイドラインにも準拠しており、エンゲージメントの正常性も確実なものとなります。
この手法では、無料で使い続けたい一部のユーザーがクレームを放つことは想像容易いです。しかしYouTubeを利用するには規約は守らなければなりません。
どのようにこの問題を解決に着地させるかはVRChatの運営次第です。私からのこの提案は考え得るひとつのアイディアとして扱って頂けると幸いです。
pluslatte
I am not saying that this claim is wrong. However, remember the possibility that making youtube videos available in a formal way will lead to all of us watching ads for removing grease from our pores that will be shown all over the screen if you try to play the video in chillworld. (Try using WatchTogether on Discord. It sucks.)
I cannot accept that the good experience we have had so far will be compromised, and I do not agree with the classic argument that advertising on the Internet is useful. (I understand that is not what the thread owner is claiming.) In the first place, it is unacceptable that ads appearing in the video.
While it is true that the profits of video creators are being harmed, it is also true that they are making money by forcing an unpleasant experience on their viewers.
この主張が間違っているとは言いません。しかし、正式な方法でyoutubeの動画を視聴するようにすることは、チルワールドで動画を流そうとしたら画面いっぱいに映し出される毛穴から脂を除去する広告を全員で観ることにつながるかもしれません。（DiscordのWatchTogetherを使ってみてみてください。最悪です。）
これまでの良好な体験が損なわれることは受け入れられませんし、インターネット上の広告は有用であるという古典的な主張には賛同しかねます。（スレッド主がそう主張しているわけではないことは理解しています）そもそも、動画に割り込んで広告が表示されること自体受け入れられないことです。
動画クリエイターの利益が損なわれていることは事実ですが、同時に彼らが視聴者に不快な体験を押し付けてお金を稼いでいることもまた事実です。
MinaFrancesca
This is a problem that is getting a lot of attention. I will add more information.
Please be careful! I was very happy that I could watch videos in VRChat without ads!
However, I have to follow YouTube's rules. This really bothers me.
I would appreciate it if you could find a constructive and friendly way, method, or solution to make YouTube videos available again.
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Using yt-dlp within VRChat to play YouTube videos, bypassing ads, view counts, and watch time tracking, may violate YouTube’s terms of service. YouTube’s terms require using official methods provided by YouTube for accessing and viewing content, and using third-party tools to circumvent these processes could be considered a breach of their policies.
Moreover, YouTube regularly changes its specifications, often restricting third-party tools and services from playing content on its platform. These changes are likely made to maintain service consistency, protect ad revenue, and ensure copyright compliance.
In this case, YouTube’s recent specification change has rendered yt-dlp non-functional, stopping the VRChat video player from operating as it did before. This suggests YouTube may be moving to regulate third-party viewing methods more strictly. Therefore, to stay in compliance with YouTube’s terms, it would be advisable to use YouTube’s official API or authorized methods for video playback within VRChat.