Stop Restricting Avatar Creators
closed
MysteryManTK
I want to start by saying, yes I understand that people will abuse the exploits in your sdk, but "hacking" is common in every game. This is more of an open letter to the devs than anything. I wont be naming names, or pointing fingers. I'm speaking for myself of things I have noticed, and can see happening. I have been a part of a large group of friends that are all avatar and world creators. We get together almost nightly to discuss things in game, and updates comming, as well as show off new creations or tricks we've figured out. 95% of the time something new is showed off, someone says, "I wonder how long until they restrict that too." The reason why is because of the day of the particle limiter. Not the new one. The first one. The one that killed most, if not all, of our gestures. Thankfully it was removed quickly, but that put a bad taste in most of our mouths because all of us thought at some point, it would be put back in permanently. Then audio was limited making most of our sound effects and music not heard. Then we figured out how to do chairs on avatars, only to have that patched as well. Now VRChat buffers every time we spawn something in, change avatars, or someone joins, causing our animations to reset in the middle of showing them off. I understand all of this was done to keep the abusers from abusing, but the thing about abusers is, they will always find a way around it. We all understand the abusers suck, but most of us have just grown to ignore them. The abusers are still doing exactly what they've been doing since day one, and the rest of us are suffering the consequences. Not them. So many people have quit playing because of being restricted on everything we do. Each update isn't, "what can we do," its, "what can't we do." I understand things are in development, but we can't do amazing things with restrictions. Most of us want to fight the abusers ourselves, but since we follow the rules, we have to pay the price for them because they just go around it. Why is our reward for following the rules, and finding cool things in the game, having that cool thing taken away because someone else isn't following the rules? Restrictions will kill a game. You guys need to understand that competition is comming, and as soon as it does, if the other game has less restrictions, everyone will go to it. This game has the ability to be the next Garry's Mod. My suggestion is to give a little slack on the leash you have on all of us, and let us make this game amazing. You guys are doing a fantastic job. Let us help you do even more. I have many suggestions, but I don't want to list them here. All I ask is please stop taking away the things that keep us in the game. Thank you for your time.
MysteryManTK
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Aev
closed
While we appreciate the feedback and take it into consideration, this request doesn't describe a specific request for the application or SDK.
kawashirov
Disagree at all. Current system is too liberal and have not very much limitations for avatars that allows to, in first, upload technically shitty content that creates lags for everyone, in second, spaming and noizy content. I am glad that now I able to turn off that shitty particles at all, also waiting features for turning off audio, expensive shaders and etc. Becuase currently it's almost not possible to go in public with enabled avatars.
With great power comes great responsibility, but theres no responsible players in VRChat...
MysteryManTK
kawashirov: Kill the creators, kill the game. The limits they have put into the game have drastically killed off the creators. Since the first week I've been in rooms with nothing but high end creators in them, and all of us have agreed on one thing. The day they limit us to the point we can't have fun is the day we quit. It's already started. It's going to get worse.
Kalista Phoenix
MysteryManTK: If I can no longer be a giant in VRchat, I will likely migrate to another VR service. It has been the biggest draw for me. No pun intended.
Jared
I just want to be able to use props that I bought on the asset store. I just bought a $12 asset that lets me spawn little potion bottles that have a cool liquid effect. and when I turn it it has the same effect as the drinks in the pug. I was super happy and excited to get it all set up and working only to find that just before i uploaded it, the sdk told me its just gonna get removed, like it was illegal and I shouldn't have rights to it. I can't refund this stuff!
Better yet. Can we get a list of everything that's gonna get taken out when we upload it so we don't waste our money?
Youtube Sucks
I agree. Reminds me of when TF2 was more fun with a lot of funny glitches that all got patched out. Sure, the glitches were abused by some to get an advantage in the gameplay but not playing seriously and trading was highly encouraged and supported by the devs at the same time. Hypocritical bs, and I know it from pretty many games I've all stopped playing because I got tired of devs walking around and watching people, taking mechanics out and altering them, muttering: "No, stop doing it, THIS is how my game is supposed to be played!!!"
Why not let the players decide? What bad thing can happen with the described things anyway? What are the consequences? A question hardly asked by any dev, the only thing they care about is not allowing users to alter THEIR game, until the fanbase hops to the next best thing. Have fun with YOUR game then, your empty game world, devoid of creativity, spontaneity and fun.
Kalista Phoenix
While I do agree, there are the bad apples who want to ruin it for everyone, and the developers have to crack down... and it's really hard to sift through who the good folks are who are abusing, and those who are trying to do so for creativity sake.
Example: I often play as gigantic beings (Celestial space phoenix, gigantic dragon fox (Macro Fox).
I would like to use certain features, such as use of sound effects and particles for effect to go along with the concepts. I saw there are people using some method to cause other player's screens to shake. Interesting to use for say... if I was to take steps, to cause a slight shake, but at the same time, I could see people getting highly pissed if this kept happening.
Creative things should NEVER be harmful to other players. High volume sound effects, loud music, flashing lights, and highly lag inducing filter effects. there are alot of people who use these maliciously... the developers have had to crack down... and I for one hope that making a giant avatar will not get on that list... otherwise I'd leave VRC myself.
Wendy-chan
I have encountered a player with a SAO 'GGO' skin "death gun's" skin and he had a gun which could literally 'kill' people. he shot me with it and my game froze and my gpu usage spiked so high it couldn't keep up and then it crashed my GPU... This is what I would consider abuse, not sure how it's done but for something like that to be in a game is a bit "monkaS" and things like that aren't meant to be every created and put into a game without purposes meant to do bad. It's cool and all you made it, but the fact that you use it on random people in random rooms either because they pointed you out because you have the model, or because they irritated you and you shoot them and crash their computer... it's so sad. IMO unity is so bad, but it's the best engine there is out there currently that is user friendly, might not be on the performance side, but most definitely for the creation side.
I agree with these restrictions being removed because as MysteryManTK said, these restrictions don't limit the abusers, they limit the actual creators, and the abusers will just find a new way to go around the restrictions as they are still doing, which influences VRChat to restrict more and more. Sooner or later we're not going to have custom models because of these abusers, which is not what should happen because then it'll just kill the game, like how CS:GO banned gambling. Change something so drastic that is keeping the game alive either remove it or change it so much that it's not the same as it was, then you're playing a completely different game than what you initially wanted to play.
I also want to say, that I've noticed throughout a span of 24 hours of playing VRchat that there are a lot of rooms of "Non English" speaking players who crowd into certain rooms. Any new person joining VRChat or returning player of VRChat who wants to go where everyone is will just be welcomed by a bombardment of Non-English players all in single rooms. Now having a diverse game is good, but for the new players in search is chatters is not a good thing and it will just make them want to not play the game. I'm thinking of an option to apply a base room language that tells players who are looking for rooms to go to and chat in their language and/or in other languages. This option would not restrict players from joining any rooms obviously. Either it can match a room creators base language or it can take the base languages from let's say 10 users and 7 out of 10 are English the rest have a different language applied then it would be primarily an English room. If it's an even 5 out of 5 then it would be for example: (English, Spanish) or (English, Japanese). Some European rooms that have a hugely diverse language area could have abbreviated languages for example: (Ru, Ge, Swe) etc etc.
Wendy-chan
Ruby Rose
I completely agree, Personally one of the major attraction for the game was the ability to create my own things. Being restricted from doing such would've lost my passion for doing such things.
MysticalCyan
Ive see and heard clients out in the mix, and had folks explain things to me outright and showcase their stuff. What is the point in blanket restricting items, the possibility of making a client that can black list certain particles and effects, and even not load in client side certain parts of avatars to prevent lag has been done and is very much possible. Why can the devs work on finding these things and impleneting an inclient blacklist of certain parameters that people in their basements can develop that improves fps far more than ingame updates can ever do.
Why limit avatar creators when you can add limits people can have on themselves that prevents things like seeing mesh filters, or collissions, but still beig able to view and see the materials and shaders of avatars and particles. Including an ever growing black list of certain particles or meshs people cant see so they wont be particle or mesh crashed.
Its a more complex issue but it would improve the game far more than these blanket restrictions
Marian Dovgialo
I agree completely. The VRChat team should minimilize their moderation input, give creators more freedom and more self moderation tools. Maybe even a way to hide your world instance from multiple offenders.
Its gonna be cheaper on the company and it will allow for creating diverse communities with their own morality standards and traditions. Let groups self govern.
krisu․miushy
Yush
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