Toggle particle systems
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harcuri
Many people are frustrated by the newest update restricting the particle amount. People who spend months creating particle systems to show them off to their friends are considering quitting the game or downloading hacked clients. Also particle systems can generate lag even if you can't see them, and i have been crashed by another person using "crash particles" so that is not fixed. Toggling the particle emitters themselves should be an option, so that people who want to risk the lag to see something cool should be able to.
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Aev
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A per-user config file has been added in VRChat 2018.2.2 for control over a particle limiter. Check this out for more info: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-particle-system-limits
Aev
Merged in a post:
Useless particle limit
RpgFan HD
This particle will not stop the guys from crashing others. They only need 2 particle systems for that and with this limit you nearly killed the creativity and the open option what i love on this game. In my opinion there should be a opzion in the system menu whrere you just toggle the particles off when you dont want them and activate whenevet you want. I know so many people who made awsome particle systems and even i started to di them but this killed so much . Pls change something or a lot of persons will quit this game.
Aev
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cyberbanana
I have to agree to @Harcuri, toggling the particle emitters is a good idea..
I really hate those people who use the particle crasher, just because they are uncreative, They gonna ruin it for those people who can handle the particles effect with cool animations and stuff.
Beep Beep Im a Sheep
Just make the Particles GPU Rendered xD
hackspanner
I'm actually surprised no one has mentioned VR mode at all. We do have a huge number of desktop users, though so I can see that the VR User voting power is probably very small. Anyway, my point is that if your frame rate drops below 45fps (with reprojection to 90), VR STOPS WORKING. VRChat is always going to need to prioritize that. If you have optioned to keep particles on and it drops your fps that low, it still sucks in VR, no matter how beautiful the particles are.
Guribo
hackspanner: "if your frame rate drops below 45fps (with reprojection to 90), VR STOPS WORKING" that is not true... I am on a vive and I go down to 15fps and can still see everything, although it laggs.
NicoKuroKusagi
hackspanner: 1. not everything here is true as Guribo said. 2. What is quality control? 80% of the maps are not optimized and is lagging as hell by default already. 3. Why should this be any reasons for adding a particle enable / disable function like panic mode? People who want it can turn it on the rest just does not do it. Simple.
Shelfen
hackspanner: so now we need to have an VR User next to our name for voting here?
I have VR without the best system and some particle effects is such crazy amazing in VR mode even in 45fps. It is not an priority to keep it running 90fps 100% of the time, then you would have to make everything locked down. The world is changing and every half year we get a new update in hardware or system.
The thing is that dropping bellow 25fps and theese screenshake shaders are destroying it for the VR users. Mirrors should have been banned by now if fps was priority...
You cannot control everything, it will make it dull in the end.
Fennie
hackspanner: well it does prompt me into the steam loading screen all the time and it really sucks
owlboy
hackspanner: 💯
owlboy
Shelfen: I believe mirrors are a weird special case. They are so awesome in VR, but also a huge performance hit.
So when implemented with nice techniques to limit their impact they are fine.
These are also not on avatars. Having someone be able to pull out a mirror anywhere any time would be bad. That would be what would make it an equivalent comparison.
Shelfen
owlboy: i wont push it as long but i know the mirrors is a special case, it is just that it hits so hard and is implemented badly on some worlds, even the trusted worlds like Avatar Testing this is still to much for an 1070oc and i7 8700k with Oculus Rift.
With about 4 people there you can get a performance hit, with a few dynamic bones and some okay optimised avatars.
The thing is, i am 100% sure it is possible to implement world only particle effects and avatar particles off on Public worlds and a switch to turn on/off on Friends/Private/Invite only worlds, this would be the best option, or make an avatar upload in unity for only to be used in Public worlds with these restrictions, and have one upload type for the private worlds without restrictions.
owlboy
Shelfen: As someone who runs public worlds, having avatars suck in them would be a huge bummer.
And the idea of a culture of "wearing protection" to go into public worlds so you are not crashed by attackers seems like a big bummer. Most of the people saying they are spending hundreds of hours on a single particle system probably want to go and show it off to more people than just their friends in private.
Shelfen
owlboy: okay, so lets say you want this to be enabled, you could eventually have an button in your world to turn this on in public. Or lets say you can have an physical button to turn this off, or have an safe area for you to configure to have no particle effects in it for the local player. This would be an perfect way to minimize the impact for creators and you can make an Bar or Safezone for players to talk without getting anoyed by the others around you?
Shelfen
owlboy: also to pop inn, there is still ways to crash it seems, even after the particle reduction event, from what i heard.
hackspanner
Guribo: Immersive VR as we know it since 2012. 15fps Stereo 360 video is not the same thing, which is basically what you get when you start lagging.
Guribo
hackspanner: I agree, good immersion comes with higher framerates. Thanks for the clarification. I hope there will be a solution to this whole issue where everyone can be happy.
Break
hackspanner:
Regardless of if it's immersive or there's frame drops-
AS the player we should have the option to choose what we want to opt into.
Not having that option is in my opinion a slap in the face to people aspiring to work with intricate particle systems and animations as well as the veterans of the scene sharing their individuality and creativity in that way.
In my opinion the way it's being portrayed is similar to telling people who want to play AAA games that they can't play unless their computer can support the ultra level graphics because they don't want to include any graphics options in their menu.
Why?
They said so.
It's clearly ridiculous. Hell even my analogy is silly but that's the point here, isn't it?
I have VR and I can confirm that on a VR capable machine in an optimized world - the over the top animations often don't drop me bellow 20 with quite a few people present, and upwards of even 50-90 if there are less people there, animation varying of course.
To me VRChat has always been about the ability to be as creative as you want to, and that's what has made it so fun for me to date.
Stunting that Will drive people away.
At the end of the day the performance issues regarding particle systems is a concern that i'm glad is being addressed.
As aforementioned, I think my stance is fairly clear.
If it isn't - to be absolutely clear - I'd rather lag a bit and be able to appreciate the efforts others make than not have the option to because the creators chose for me.
How hard is it to add a button or slider for people to choose for them selves and solve this issue for both parties outright?
Also if I may include here really quickly that where you guys put the home button/re-spawn all that jazz on top is inconvenient in my opinion?
I as well as others would love for the position of those UI elements to be looked at further, perhaps on the side.
Maybe it's muscle memory but I instantly flick to the top most for avatars and that's no longer the case anymore. Small thing.
Thanks,
Break.
Joshua S
@hackspanner: I think people should have a choice in if they have particles or not...people have made amazing animations and after the particle limit went into affect it broke many of those animations some of which took days to create which made many frustrated enough to leave. Adding a option to either disable or lower particles sounds more reasonable as players who have performance issue could lower or disable particles and those who have no performance hits or have no issue with the frame drops can keep it max. I personally would keep mine at max as I don't really have much performance issues with my Vive.
Electro
hackspanner I have VR and use the Oculus Rift. I always have a very high frame rate unless I am in a world that is poorly optimized.
Honestly particles barely even make a difference on my PC at all. Even people with 200k+ polygons on the screen with 30+ materials and some lights on, it barely makes a difference to my FPS at all. The only time, and I seriously mean it when I say it, I only really go below 30FPS if it is a poorly optimized world that has a lot of people in it.
The Particles Limiter is client side and I really like seeing my own and everyone else's particles. It is what I want at my own risk that I am more than willing to take. The risk for me in most cases is going from 45FPS down to 44FPS which is worth it. If I want to see it then I don't see why the Limiter has to be forced onto me. It really doesn't do anything good for me at all and particles do not ruin my VR experience at all. If anything it makes it better.
Even if I drop to 10FPS or less on my Oculus Rift VRChat DOES NOT STOP WORKING! If it drops super low like that, my Oculus Rift just freezes from time to time but on my desktop it shows things normally and never stops running.
FYI hackspanner VRChat with VR runs so well for me because I have
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Intel Core i7 7700 @ 3.60GHz
ASRock B250 Gaming K4
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
32GB of RAM
People with VR compatible systems do not have problems with particles because their machines are good enough to run VR. Therefore something like particles doesn't impact them much because particles are very minor.
Only people with bad PC's that can't even run VR have a problem and honestly shouldn't even be running VRChat if their systems don't even meet the requirements. It is those people that should have the option to not see particles instead of forcing it onto everyone else. But even then it should still be an option for them because I am sure that they still want to see particles as well anyway. It should be the user's choice. Those people that can't run VR but want to be in VRChat are responsible for upgrading their outdated systems. And that is also why many games just have the options to reduce settings at the user's will.
I HAVE NEVER heard of any game in my life removing features because certain users do not have sufficient machines to run their games. The game can only become more optimized at how it runs but that is it. If it is not good enough for the user then they just need to get a new PC. The game maker is not responsible after they have already displayed the requirements yet people always choose to play something they can not run. It is their own fault. I don't mean to sound harsh but that is the honest truth and just how things work. So while we are at it. Bring back camera's.
So add a Toggle Particle System feature though I am sure many people won't even use it or only use it temporarily for users who abuse Particles. There is already a panic mode feature and a block feature.
IF POSSIBLE just make more things use GPU than CPU. That will help A LOT. Otherwise things are fine as they are.
Ponky
I sure hope so. I was happy with the particle limit tbh. Some people, myself included, have epilepsy and some of yall cant god damn help yourselves but flash youre god awful animations every 5 seconds
Break
Ponky: Particle limits wont change that. I could have One particle system that'd flicker a certain way and trigger you.
They need to approach this a different way.
As others have mentioned, toggles to turn them off/on.
Also as you're an epileptic, I hope you have been using the block avatars option and informing your friends to limit the chances. That's the practice we go forward with regarding my epileptic friends in vrchat and it works fairly well.
It'll always happen Eventually with the current system unfortunately.
zaCade
In my honest opinion the limitation isn't the correct way to deal with this, having a toggle in system to 'allow particles', with the sub-options 'allow from friends' & 'allow from strangers' would be a way better solution next to being able to block a specific person their particles instead of having to fully block them. The limitations on stuff like this just make the amazing creative people in this game really limited to what they can do, because myself for example rather lag alittle bit when seeing amazing particle animations then having really poor animations because the creator is being too limited in what they can do.
Edit: Countering malicious use of particles would be as simple as making collisions 'non-local', wich would cause everyone to see the collision instead of only the person it collides with.
SHAJIKUworks
zaCade:
> having a toggle in system to 'allow particles', with the sub-options 'allow from friends' & 'allow from strangers'
I LIKE THIS!!!
I think that rather than restricting everything, users should be able to select it.
V
VdotV
SHAJIKUworks: yes this
Sinister Being
Oof. Please fix this. Got entirely too many friends that are upset over all of this drama.
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josh k blanke
im really annoyed that they are restricting the particle amount. my reg's incinerator looks like crap now because of it! and this idea of beaing able to turn off particle animations when you want so people cant crash you in public worlds is a really good idea.
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