Desperately need a very poor allowance on mobile
Happyrobot33
Even if it is default off, 90% of the reason most people that already play on PC like myself will likely end up using the mobile version is to test quest content. some setups are literally impossible to do without being pushed into the very poor bracket on quest even if they functionally dont have a big real-world performance impact. I understand why this would be disabled, but can we atleast get some way to turn this back on so it matches feature parity when it comes to rendering on quest?
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DragonTamerWes
I would like to see a prompt with a warning that very poor is about to be use. Or an optimization slider to get the avatar to poor (least preferred), or sign a waiver that vrchat isn't responsible for damage to your phone.
l
leandrofofo
Significa que todos os avatares que não funcionam no VR chat mobile não ou mais existir não entendi
Jordan11
We need the option to be able to allow very poor avatars, when the standards are set so high for mobile it makes it very hard to find an avatar that you can actually see. Higher end phones are able to handle these avatars just fine in smaller worlds and it's extremely hard to find/create avatars that fit above the very poor requirements for android.
kawashirov
please, don't
remove very poors
RF_GAMER
kawashirov If you don't like very poor avatars, JUST TURN ON performance rank in vrchat and block very poor avatars for your self*
kawashirov
RF_GAMER Yes and look at mushroom fallback 🙈
For some reason creators of verypoors mostly don't even bother generating impostors. That ppl genuinely believe they might throw any piece of unoptimized content on platform and it's our responsibility to see it 🤷♂️ 90%+ of very poor avatars I ever seen on both PC and Mobile might been optimized easily with little effort up to just poors.
And verypoors wearers don't bother selecting proper fallback. Most newbies I meet simply don't understand concept of avatar ranking and why fallbacks important, they assume "if content is available, it's widely acceptable" (and it's not their fault, most of the things nowadays are consumer-ready), then getting confused why some ppl can't see them.
Very poors as whole thing simply polluting platform with unusable and unplayable content, forcing everyone to manage & figuring out things manually on theirs's end. Every large public instance becomes your system's resource manager simulator, not social game.
remove very poors 🔪❗
RF_GAMER
kawashirov vrchat is a community game and the content that is made for it is content from the vrchat community and this is the main difference of vrchat, very poor avatars in the vast majority of cases are not poorly optimized avatars, but rather avatars with a lot of content for example: various clothes, various types of hair, various customizations and among other things, it's not a problem for vrchat or the community if you enter a game that has content created by the community itself and expect to run everything using a PC from the 2000s with integrated graphics and things like that, optimization is about using resources consciously and not doing half work or limited work to make it run on anything that people call a "PC", besides the day vrchat removes avatars very poor for the PC version, I'm the first person to stop paying for vrchat+ and go to one of the game's competitors, which already has several, this idea that people have to use "poor" or super light avatars just so you can see them is pure egocentrism, each person chooses something based on the characteristics that represent them and if these individual characteristics of each avatar bother you, you should simply click on the "hide avatar" button and stop seeing them, I will not remove several resources of my avatar just to leave it "poor" for other people to see, if I can't send it here to VRChat I will send it and use it in another game of the same style, removing very poor avatars means imposing a barrier the creativity of the content creator and I'll say more, not even the cell phone version was supposed to have a limit on visible avatars, the game is based purely on community content and if I want to play a game like this with my cell phone, quest, or computer, The only one who has to decide what I can see or not is MYSELF, all VRCHAT needs to do is what it already does, which is define filters that serve to improve performance, leaving the user in charge of the number of avatars that can be seen and the range at which avatars are rendered, and these filters are: SAFETY, PERFORMANCE RANKS, CONTENT GATING and AVATAR CULLING!!!!
DragonTamerWes
kawashirov The only very poor avatar that could be seen week 1 was the one you used. Everyone else using very poor was in fallback. This was acceptable. So if you show a very poor avatar for someone else, you get their fallback. Some people want to see the avatar they are using and the expressions.
kawashirov
RF_GAMER
>very poor avatars in the vast majority of cases are not poorly optimized avatars
Can't say it's true by my experience
>not poorly optimized avatars, but rather avatars with a lot of content for example: various clothes, various types of hair, various customizations and among other things
that's
literally poorly optimized avatars
. All those variants uploaded to VRAM, because Unity expect this might me shown right next frame and it believes it must be ready to render it immediately. And thanks god if those meshes use shared material, otherwise it also uploads those unused textures to VRAM too. Good practice is to upload every set of clothes and styles on separate avatr_id, which, as I remember, even official guides says, and good creators do.>it's not a problem for vrchat or the community
It is
>blah blah about PC from the 2000s
Dude please. It's not about potato PCs and we know it. Most of the modern games can run normally on GPUs with 8GB vram, but it's not enough for VRC, because at least 2GB got eaten by VRC and VR software by itself, and then you joining the instance with about 50 players, and have roughly 120MB per person, which is fine, but lots of the very poors have use much more VRAM. And we don't count the world assets, and we must have some free space as buffer to prevent shutters. Even if you take some 16GB GPU as reference point, notable amount of verypoors still have >250MB vram usage.
I am talking about PC limits here, but things on mobile even much worse in all aspects.
>optimization is about using resources consciously
EXACTLY. Uploading resource into memory without intent to use that resource is a
crime against optimisations
.>you should simply click on the "hide avatar" button and stop seeing them
That's what I told before. When you joining an instance full of very poor's,
you start playing your system resources management simulator
, not a social game
.>I will not remove ... for other people to see
So... you simply don't care about accessibility of content for other ppl? You saying that at the same time talking about "pure egocentrism" whaaa 🙈
>imposing a barrier the creativity of the content creator
Didn't you justified hardware barrier few sentences ago? 🙈 Didn't you just said ppl should not have expectations, when have weak PC? 🙈
>the number of avatars that can be seen and the range at which avatars are rendered
You see, this is not panacea, as VRC have to load and unload assets constantly which means shutters and freezes. This kinda works in large worlds with groups of separated ppl, but not universal at all.
Anyways, I can't say you fully wrong tho.
You focused on one aspect but miss others I pointed out before.
I am not against "creative" avatars, those might be used for some performances or for VTubing, that's great.
The problem there, they are not for daily use in populated areas, plus as I said before, lots of "creators" treat ability to ignore sane performance limits as something acceptable and their "right", leaving management of resources to the end users, which is not ok.
My point, once again,
it's not OK to drag and drop whatever content into SDK without even looking into it
. Avatars that use 400MB+ VRAM have 300 materials, 1M polys, 600 bones, 100 constraints, etc is crazy and have no excuse
. But this will continue to happen
, until somewhat punishment/tradeoffs/fees/requirements will be established by VRChat Team. There might be a compromise solution, like requiring very poors to have proper fallback or at least impostors. But very poors for sure
should not be dropped on end user heads out of control
.Sooo... yeaa... remove very poors 🔪❗
kawashirov
DragonTamerWes As I said before, local very poors are OK. The problem is when end user have most of avatars around being fallback and have to manage resources constantly. Once again, very poors for should not be dropped on end user heads out of control.
RF_GAMER
kawashirov As I said before, if you don't want to see very poor avatars simply deactivate them, and besides, I do use all the resources that my "very poor" avatar has, unlike you who must be used to using avatars from like they had on VRChat in 2017
super limited, practically any texture on a polygonal skeleton, I want to continue with the right to put whatever I want on my avatar and I also want to have the guarantee that you have the right not to see it. it and not have your performance impacted by it
, I believe that pressure is essential for very poor avatars to continue in the game, this is the desire of the vrchat community, it is the desire of content creators, to limit avatars to performance rank "poor" is ridiculous, this means that the avatars have almost nothing, and this downgrade is one of the decisive steps to kill vrc once and for all, handing over the current content creation audience to competitors who, as a result of this attitude, will start to deliver a more complete and more appropriate experience for what vrchat "set out" to be, a game focused on content from the community itself
kawashirov
RF_GAMER
> if you don't want
didn't read after that. It's not about me. It's about UX and I explained above already. you just fighting a strawman at this point.
DragonTamerWes
RF_GAMER I will not be buying any vrc bucks until very poor avatar for only the user is back on mobile. We can vote with our wallets.
RF_GAMER
DragonTamerWes Yes !!!
RF_GAMER
kawashirov VRCHAT only exist because of user content, without user content vrchat die, vrchat is not a competitive game or a game that you need a lot of frames to play, vrchat is just VR, only interaction with other users and the content of community, less or more limited community content = less interesting things to do in vrchat and less people playing and buying vrchat plus*.
RF_GAMER
kawashirov Among US, aircraft maps, a lot of worlds with a lot of interesting things to do, rexonium, Hiyenid, nice and cute furryavatars, i am here just because of the community content, if vrchat team want to remove very poor avatars or limit world creation i will just stop buying VRCHAT+ and will play others games
DragonTamerWes
RF_GAMER There is ChillOutVR which is 18+, and Resonant
DragonTamerWes
RF_GAMER Plus we'll have those on the PC losing their 500+ mb avatars come next month.
kawashirov
>vrchat is not a ... game that you need a lot of frames to play
How we end up with delusional takes like this? 🙈🙈🙈
Z
Zykoth
this needs to happen
RF_GAMER
vrchat alpha in the first days with very poor avatars
running at GALAXY M53
https://youtu.be/dqSukqtNWZ0?si=G2phyuUsRhK19eQZZ
Zykoth
RF_GAMER it ran pretty smooth as it is bull that there is even a bery poor blocker to begin with.
Darryl Nebula
Bump, we still got no response about this..
I like The_Dog_404's comment, thats how the vrc devs should do it.
Louis_45
Yeah we desperately need mobile phone crashers. Not so a great idea in my opinion. Imagine frying a phone instead of a quest. The damage...
OctoFloofy
Louis_45: crashers are not bound to a specific performance rank
RF_GAMER
Louis_45: High end phones in 2024 is much more better than quest 2, some midphones is better than quest 2
RF_GAMER
Louis_45: If do you have a low end device, just use performance rank, i have a GALAXY M53 (cheap 1800R$) and i played vrchat mobile with verypoor avatars on and my phone never "EXPLODED" > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVph6gG-5OE
Louis_45
RF_GAMER: That has nothing to do with the issue. The problem lies with crashes on phones, as opposed to Quest or other headsets. The significance is that mobile phones are essential, and a crash that renders a phone unusable can cause much more harm than one affecting a Quest.
Louis_45
RF_GAMER: Thats not even cheap tbh and I am not talking about the phone exploding with normal avatars. There are phones out there with chips with known exploits and I'm talking mostly about them.
Louis_45
OctoFloofy: Yes but would be more likely anyways
RF_GAMER
Louis_45 Is your option see the "very poor" avatar, i prefer have more chance to see an crash avatar than not play vrchat mobile because actually vrchat beta is unplayable, but to solve this insue of "crashing avatar" is just add option to see your very poor avatar, because vrchat alfa have this feature and i make a lot of videos playing vrchat alfa with very poor avatar > https://youtu.be/VVph6gG-5OE?si=rgzx2FGvjZZkWOAp
RF_GAMER
Louis_45 Quest is not essential?? I know about a lot of peoples using quest 2 to work, you can have more than 3 virtual monitor and you can be more productive, and here in Brazil my Galaxy M53 is just R$1500, a QUEST 2 is +- R$2500-3000 (much more expensive)
RF_GAMER
Louis_45 It's not a problem for vrchat to solve, i want to play vrchat in my phone, i bought vrchat plus to support vrchat team a lot of times and i just can't play this game because some people have problems with theirs phones???
Z
Zykoth
RF_GAMER I run vrchat mobile on a galaxy s9+ which is better than standalone quest 2 by a mile despite being 2 years older. it also looks better than most pcs people use and headsets with that gorgeous Super AMOLED HDR screen. For example
![](https://canny.io/images/7626f483deca0259ba5d31d930dfa96a.jpg)
The_Dog_404
This really is a big deal when it comes to
choice
. People should be able to choose what they do when it comes to showing or hiding avatars.So how about this:
Allow the user to use and show avatars that are rated very poor. Automatically cull the avatar beyond a distance, say 5 meters. And set a limit of 5-10 very poor avatars at once to be shown in the radius.
With this, most phones could benefit from having these avatars without suffering from performance issues.
HOWEVER there could be a toggle in settings (with a warning) that disables the limit and the automatic culling. This could be reset on closing the game.
Some possible examples of this toggle:
Disable Very Poor avatar limits [FALSE]
User toggles option
| Warning
|| This could harm your performance, cause crashes, cause more frequent freezing and stutters, or overall impact your experience. Do you wish to continue?
User presses yes
| Toggle will be on until game restart or until the user turns it off, and the limits are turned off.
User presses no
| Toggle will remain off and no changes are made.
This really could improve the mobile experience some for people with weaker phones but keep balance for people with higher powered phones.
DragonTamerWes
I can see the Preview of my Quest avatar even if it's very poor, but can't use it, only the imposter, which I cannot use the toggles. We would like to use the very poor avatars for only us to see. It will all those who have only PC, to test the Android side of the avatar.
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