[1643] Cannot change fallbacks in new avatar menu
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DAG-XR
WIthin the new avatar menu, it becomes impossible to change fallbacks, whether it's a public/legacy avatar on the Explore tab, or if it's a Fallback avatar uploaded by you.
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Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Fallbacks are being deprecated slowly over time in favor of impostors. This update removes them from the VRChat application, but you can still select them on the website.
We'll note this in the patch notes.
No-Me
I'm so confused as to why downgrading is seen as a good idea. Imposters are vastly inferior to fallbacks in every way. Period. All the work I put into my fallbacks going to waste is incredibly frustrating for me.
Imposter generation is a total mess at this point. They are exceedingly ugly, too. Like a bowl of mashed potatoes. In a game that, for many, can revolve around aesthetics, this is a massive step back. I find myself shutting off imposters because the gray robot is more appealing to me. They lack visemes, gestures, are ugly, and often naked or have clothing issues.
Tukumomi
I understand the intention to eventually eliminate fallbacks, but I believe moving forward with removing them in their current state is premature.
At the very least, the current fallback avatars look unappealing and offer no control over their appearance, so I don't feel inclined to use them actively. That said, even with a fallback, it's still possible to represent oneself to some minimal degree.
Removing fallbacks or making them unselectable can wait until the accuracy of Impostor generation has improved.
Alternatively, it might be worth considering allowing users to set their fallback via the Avatar Marketplace.
While I assume there aren't many users who currently set up custom fallbacks, I believe it would be wise to have a careful discussion before discontinuing something that is already functioning.
Sandy La-Plus
Games should support quest conversion rather than using imposters or fallbacks.
At the very least, the current Imposter conversion is not pretty. The whole replacement method would be great, but for now low poly is better.
For users with many different costumed avatars, having a representative fallback is easier than Quest conversion. Therefore, I am against abolishing fallbacks while still leaving everything half-baked.
koikuchi
If they are going to standardize making fallbacks imposters, I'd like them to do so first as I see a lot of broken avatars like these.This may not be helpful, but the user's name was 田中_妹. I didn't get to hear her avatar ID.
Myrkur
unless impostors can do an overnight rework they cannot in anyway replace fallbacks, proportions get lost in translation, certain shader setups can ruin texture coloring, sometimes bones go missing even clothes do, see the examples below. its a mess that usually results in the impostor looking nothing like a usable avatar that anyone would choose to wear. its why I have opted to make a fallback and disable impostor generation, what is this insane decision?
DAG-XR
Krysiek
In my opinion, the current fallback system doesn’t work well alongside impostors. The main issue is that impostors work per avatar, while fallbacks work per user, which unnecessarily complicates things.
But I wouldn’t remove fallbacks entirely. Instead, my suggestion is to rework them into something like "impostors+". Here's the idea:
- Fallback is uploaded per avatar, as a lightweight version of that avatar.
- The fallback must have Excellent/Good performance, and it cannot contain any custom animators or parameters. It also has to use one of the lightweight standard shaders.
- If a specific avatar has a fallback uploaded, display it instead of an impostor.
What do you think? This approach would prevent the creation of "heavy" fallbacks, while still giving users some control over how they appear to others, without relying solely on impostors.
Duno
Krysiek Wonderful idea!
るいざ・しゃーろっと
Unfortunately, the current quality of imposters is extremely poor, and there are cases where avatars appear broken or completely naked. Being able to set the traditional fallback reduces the likelihood of such “accidents.”
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DAG-XR
If putting it in Tracked, refers to allowing Fallbacks to be changed again, I'd like to thank you for considering it.
I remember VRChat wanted to bring a built-in avatar optimizer in the VRCSDK in a future update, and if this were to align with the inclusion of streamlining the upload of Fallback avatars, then I believe that may be a step forward.
SQGoukin
I'm a Japanese user, and I think removing the fallback is unrealistic. Japanese users usually upload avatars individually, so they need to keep track of a lot of avatar impostors. Also, English is not their first language, so it's very difficult to report impostor issues.
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